Andy Cohen, Vice President of Corporate Development at F5
Andy has built a career that proves M&A is fundamentally about relationships, not just transactions. With 30 years of experience and 60 deals closed across high-growth tech companies including Citrix, Acquia, and F5, Andy has cultivated the kind of reputation where every CEO he's worked with will take his call tomorrow. In this conversation, he reveals why zero-sum thinking kills deals, how to convince people to sell without convincing them to sell, and why walking away on principle matters more than closing at any cost.
Things you will learn:
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__________________
This episode is brought to you by S&P Global.
Today's episode of M&A Science is brought to you by S&P Global Market Intelligence. If you're in corp dev or PE, you know the pain — good private company data is hard to come by. Everyone's still chasing clean, reliable, up-to-date data. I started out using CapIQ Pro for public comps, but didn't realize until recently how deep their private company coverage has gotten. Over 58 million private companies, global reach, and actually usable for real deal work. This isn't surface-level. You get real metrics — ownership, financials, funding rounds, even asset-level insights. So if you're still toggling between a dozen tools trying to piece together the picture, maybe it's time to stop guessing and start sourcing better.
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Episode Timestamps
Questions, comments, concerns?
Follow Kison Patel for behind-the-scenes insights on modern M&A.
In this special father-daughter episode, My daughter interviews me on my new book on Buyer-Led M&A™. We break down the framework built from over 400 practitioner interviews—covering why traditional M&A is flawed, how to shift from reactive auction-chasing to proactive deal sourcing, and why integration planning must begin during diligence.
Things you will learn:
____________________
This episode is brought to you by S&P Global.
Today's episode of M&A Science is brought to you by S&P Global Market Intelligence.
If you're in corp dev or PE, you know the pain — good private company data is hard to come by. Everyone's still chasing clean, reliable, up-to-date data. I started out using CapIQ Pro for public comps, but didn't realize until recently how deep their private company coverage has gotten. Over 58 million private companies, global reach, and actually usable for real deal work.
This isn't surface-level. You get real metrics — ownership, financials, funding rounds, even asset-level insights. So if you're still toggling between a dozen tools trying to piece together the picture, maybe it's time to stop guessing and start sourcing better.
Learn More Here:
https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/solutions/products/private-company-data?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=MAScienceH225
__________________
Buyer-Led M&A™: The Framework is Now Available
Traditional M&A is broken. Buyers chase auctions. Sellers control the process. It's reactive, inefficient, and exhausting.
After 300+ episodes of M&A Science, I've taken insights from the world's top corp dev leaders and distilled them into a practical framework for taking control of your M&A pipeline—how to source deals directly, build relationships earlier, and stop being auction-chasers.
If you'd like to build a proactive M&A program that founders actually want to engage with, you can grab your copy.
https://dealroom.net/resources/ebooks/buyer-led-m-a-tm-the-framework
_________________
Everything You Need to Learn Modern M&A — In One Membership
Access proven templates, frameworks, and real operator insights — all designed to help you learn faster, make smarter decisions, and run Buyer-Led M&A with confidence.
Sign up now with promo code "FOUNDER" for 50% off at checkout.
https://www.mascience.com/membership
__________________
Episode Timestamps
[00:00:00] Introduction to Buyer-Led M&A – Kison introduces his new book and the framework for flipping traditional M&A from reactive to proactive deal-making.
[00:05:30] The M&A Science Origin Story
[00:08:30] The Maturity Curve Problem – Why companies make catastrophic mistakes on their first deal and how the buyer-led framework accelerates learning.
[00:12:30] Integration Is Where Value Lives – Understanding that the real work starts after close and why planning integration early prevents people from quitting.
[00:19:00] M&A Has a Design Problem, Not an Execution Problem – Why focusing on closing deals instead of making deals successful creates systemic failure.
[00:25:00] The Five Pillars of Buyer-Led M&A – Breaking down never M&A on impulse, unified tools, synchronized diligence-integration, scalability, and win-win approaches.
[00:37:30] The Three Coats of Conviction – How reactive positioning, integration negligence, and model mirage derail even well-intentioned deals.
[00:49:00] What Elite Buyers Do Differently – Early alignment, clear accountability, defined operating models, and building M&A as an organizational muscle.
[00:54:00] Proprietary Deal Sourcing Beats Auctions – The house-buying analogy that illustrates why doing the hard work of finding your own deals creates better outcomes.
[01:00:30] The Single Most Important Takeaway – Own your assumptions, validate them through rigorous work, and lead the process instead of letting sellers drive it.
Questions, comments, concerns?
Follow Kison Patel for behind-the-scenes insights on modern M&A.
Sharon Van Zeeland, Vice President of Strategy and Corporate Development at Rockwell Automation
Sharon brings a unique engineer's perspective to the softest parts of M&A. In this episode, Sharon reveals how Rockwell developed a systematic scoring system for evaluating culture fit during due diligence—complete with numerical rankings across key dimensions like decision-making authority, adaptability, and mission alignment. She also shares unconventional tactics for getting deals across the finish line, from negotiating hunting rights to sponsoring 4th of July parades, and explains why marrying your diligence and integration teams early is the secret to accelerating post-deal value creation.
____________________
This episode is brought to you by S&P Global.
Today's episode of M&A Science is brought to you by S&P Global Market Intelligence.
If you're in corp dev or PE, you know the pain — good private company data is hard to come by. Everyone's still chasing clean, reliable, up-to-date data. I started out using CapIQ Pro for public comps, but didn't realize until recently how deep their private company coverage has gotten. Over 58 million private companies, global reach, and actually usable for real deal work.
This isn't surface-level. You get real metrics — ownership, financials, funding rounds, even asset-level insights. So if you're still toggling between a dozen tools trying to piece together the picture, maybe it's time to stop guessing and start sourcing better.
Learn More Here:
https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/solutions/products/private-company-data?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=MAScienceH225
__________________
Buyer-Led M&A™: The Framework is Now Available
Traditional M&A is broken. Buyers chase auctions. Sellers control the process. It's reactive, inefficient, and exhausting.
After 300+ episodes of M&A Science, I've taken insights from the world's top corp dev leaders and distilled them into a practical framework for taking control of your M&A pipeline—how to source deals directly, build relationships earlier, and stop being auction-chasers.
If you'd like to build a proactive M&A program that founders actually want to engage with, you can grab your copy.
https://dealroom.net/resources/ebooks/buyer-led-m-a-tm-the-framework
_________________
Everything You Need to Learn Modern M&A — In One Membership
Access proven templates, frameworks, and real operator insights — all designed to help you learn faster, make smarter decisions, and run Buyer-Led M&A with confidence.
Sign up now with promo code "FOUNDER" for 50% off at checkout.
https://www.mascience.com/membership
__________________
[00:02:30] From Engineering to Corp Dev – How Sharon's electrical engineering background shaped her analytical approach to evaluating all deal variables, including the unexpected correlation between employee retention and new product introductions.
[00:05:30] Owning the Full Lifecycle – Why Rockwell expanded Sharon's role to include strategy, M&A, integration, and venture investing, creating an enterprise-wide view with quarterly reviews and closed-loop learning.
[00:08:30] The Cultural Wake-Up Call – The story of how Rockwell acquired a small software company and nearly derailed a customer's drug development timeline because they missed evaluating decision-making authority during diligence.
[00:12:00] Building a Culture Scoring System – How Rockwell uses a 50-item survey to create numerical rankings (0-5 scale) across cultural dimensions, then visualizes gaps and similarities in graphs that are "worth a thousand words."
[00:19:00] Integration Playbooks by Company Size – Why Rockwell developed separate playbooks for small, mid-size, and large acquisitions, and how they determine whether to leave companies alone, partially integrate, or fully absorb.
[00:27:00] Getting Deals Actionable – Sharon's unconventional negotiation stories: securing hunting land rights for a Texas seller, letting an owner keep his beloved company truck, and guaranteeing 4th of July parade sponsorships.
[00:38:30] Marrying Diligence and Integration – The shift from waiting until closing to starting integration planning before LOI, including how Rockwell pairs each integration leader with a corresponding person on the target side.
[00:46:00] Continuous Learning Through Retrospectives – How Rockwell conducts retrospectives after every deal phase—not immediately after closing, but six months to a year later when they can truly assess what worked.
[00:49:00] AI's Impact on M&A – Sharon's perspective on how AI is changing deal flow and diligence processes, plus a cautionary tale about AI hallucinations incorrectly identifying a public company as private.
[00:52:00] Data Beyond Financials – Why corp dev leaders should track employee retention rates, promotion rates, new product introduction velocity, and customer complaints as cultural success indicators.
Questions, comments, concerns?
Follow Kison Patel for behind-the-scenes insights on modern M&A.
Leon Brujis, Partner and Co-Head of U.S. at 65 Equity Partners
Leon Brujis shares how his firm is redefining private equity through non-control investments in founder-led businesses. In this conversation, Leon breaks down why the best companies are never for sale, how immigrant adaptability translates to investing success, and why boring, disciplined deal-making consistently outperforms flashy transactions. He also walks through his framework for negotiating term sheets and building relationships that span years before cutting checks north of $200 million.
____________________
This episode is brought to you by S&P Global.
Today's episode of M&A Science is brought to you by S&P Global Market Intelligence.
If you're in corp dev or PE, you know the pain — good private company data is hard to come by. Everyone's still chasing clean, reliable, up-to-date data. I started out using CapIQ Pro for public comps, but didn't realize until recently how deep their private company coverage has gotten. Over 58 million private companies, global reach, and actually usable for real deal work.
This isn't surface-level. You get real metrics — ownership, financials, funding rounds, even asset-level insights. So if you're still toggling between a dozen tools trying to piece together the picture, maybe it's time to stop guessing and start sourcing better.
Learn More Here:
https://www.spglobal.com/market-intelligence/en/solutions/products/private-company-data?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=video&utm_campaign=MAScienceH225
__________________
Buyer-Led M&A™: The Framework is Now Available
Traditional M&A is broken. Buyers chase auctions. Sellers control the process. It's reactive, inefficient, and exhausting.
After 300+ episodes of M&A Science, I've taken insights from the world's top corp dev leaders and distilled them into a practical framework for taking control of your M&A pipeline—how to source deals directly, build relationships earlier, and stop being auction-chasers.
If you'd like to build a proactive M&A program that founders actually want to engage with, you can grab your copy.
https://dealroom.net/resources/ebooks/buyer-led-m-a-tm-the-framework
__________________
Access proven templates, frameworks, and real operator insights — all designed to help you learn faster, make smarter decisions, and run Buyer-Led M&A with confidence.
Sign up now with promo code "FOUNDER" for 50% off at checkout.
https://www.mascience.com/membership
__________________
Episode Chapters
[00:01:00] From Engineering to Wall Street – How Leon's immigrant journey led him from Lehman Brothers to 20+ years in private equity
[00:05:30] The Immigrant Advantage – Why cultural adaptability creates flexibility in deal-making and relationship management
[00:10:00] The 65 Equity Model – Non-control investments in founder-led businesses generating $20-100M EBITDA
[00:16:00] Pull vs. Push Value Creation – Why partnership capital relies on influence, not mandates
[00:24:00] Underwriting Relationships First – Spending 1-2 years building conviction before writing $200M+ checks
[00:33:00] Crisis of Comfort – Getting comfortable being uncomfortable as the key to growth in business and life
[00:43:00] Making M&A Boring – Why consistency and discipline beat motivation and excitement every time
[00:48:00] Term Sheet Negotiation Framework – The five buckets that matter: value, structure, governance, strategy, and exit
[00:56:30] Running a Competitive Process – How to balance broad outreach with targeted relationship-building
[01:01:00] The Craziest Thing in M&A – When deal fever overtakes discipline and creates the next crisis
__________________
Questions, comments, concerns?
Follow Kison Patel for behind-the-scenes insights on modern M&A.